Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: twking on November 02, 2011, 06:32 am
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I'm considering selling my product on SR, and before I spend my $150 and register, I have a few questions.
I've read the seller's guide multiple times and searched the forums extensively to find answers to most of my questions, but I still have a few. If someone could assist me, it would be greatly appreciated.
My first questions are in regard to the escrow system. I understand the purpose of the system to protect buyers from scam sellers and how it works. I get that as a new seller, early-release is frowned upon and should be avoided until one has a reputation and that by hedging I can safeguard again BTC value fluctuations (for approx. 4% fee). My concern is in regards to protecting the seller from scam buyers. What happens if the person makes a purchase and never releases the funds? Do they auto release at some point in the future? what if I ship the goods and the buyer cancels the order? What if the buyer claims to have not received the goods? Sure things can go missing and if a pattern emerges, the seller will be suspect. How can I prove I delivered the goods when sending by regular post mail? Or do sellers have to be just as careful as buyers? Review buyer feedback before selling/shipping, request smaller purchases from first time/new buyers if uncomfortable and use common sense/best judgement.
My next questions are in regards to listing/shipping the product. I see that some vendors have a single listing for their product, offer worldwide delivery and then have a note to add certain amounts to the list price for shipping to different areas. Other vendors list a service addon to be purchased with the product for different delivery areas and still other vendors run a listing for each product/region/shipping option. Is there a method that is recommended or suggested? Are any of these methods to be avoided or frowned upon by the buyer/seller community? It seems to me that the single listing option would be easiest for the vendor, but harder for buyers because they have to add to the price, calculate exchange rates ($10 in shipping converted to BTC and added to order) and it would be more difficult to track feedback from different areas. The product with service option looks OK, but what happens if the buyer doesn't add the required shipping amount? Reject the order? PM and work it out? Also, couldn't this method skew the feedback for the seller (multiple feedback for single purchase). The separate listing for each product/region/shipping method would be the most work, but would provide the best feedback for different items going to different regions. If I was getting something shipped internationally and could see that domestic/national delivery feedback was great, but internationally there were issues, I'd try to find a different vendor. Also, this could lead to buyer confusion or purchasing the wrong item/shipping option (I wanted express delivery, but selected regular delivery).
Moving more into the shipping area, if something is being shipped express, there are options for delivery confirmation and signature required. I'm guessing it's best to try to avoid anything that involved getting a signature from the buyer involved, but I want to be sure that my goods are delivered. Can a delivery confirmation in any way be used to track back to me or cause problems for the buyer? Is requesting a signature for delivery something that should be avoided? Would a delivery confirmation be valid if it came down to having to resolve the issue in escrow. Could that confirmation number be safely shared with the escrow mediator and still ensure buyer/seller privacy and security?
My apologies if these questions have been asked before but I could not find answers searching the forums and it seems that topics pertaining to escrow, vendor, buyer, shipping, etc. produce numerous results.
My thanks to those who reply.
Follow up question. What do you do if you run into a supply chain issue (run out of product). Can you remove your listing? Update it to notify potential buyers? What about pending orders that you may not be able to fill? Can you cancel? What are the consequences?
Thanks
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My advice would be to use it as a buyer, even if just for one transaction. Unless you're tripping balls while doing it, you'll figure how it works pretty quickly.
"What happens if the person makes a purchase and never releases the funds? Do they auto release at some point in the future?"
Yes. 18 days I think
"what if I ship the goods and the buyer cancels the order?"
Tough shit, you sent it. If he didn't want it he/she shouldn't have ordered. You filled your end of the deal. If he doesn't release, see above.
"What if the buyer claims to have not received the goods? Sure things can go missing and if a pattern emerges, the seller will be suspect"
More the other way around. If all your packages arrive and one buyer keeps losing his delivery, chances are it's him or it's a very risky place to ship to eg Aus. If he keeps buying despite 'losses', he's abusing your trust.
"other vendors run a listing for each product/region/shipping option. Is there a method that is recommended or suggested?"
Your call. As a buyer I prefer to have shipping included in the total price. It's a ball ache having to add extra for shipping and if I'm honest, on occasions I haven't added it and luckily my parcel arrived (albeit after longer than most). My advice, have a listing for EU, a listing for US/CAN and another for rest of the world each with shipping calculated in.
1) "I'm guessing it's best to try to avoid anything that involved getting a signature from the buyer involved"
2) Can a delivery confirmation in any way be used to track back to me or cause problems for the buyer?"
3) "Could that confirmation number be safely shared with the escrow mediator and still ensure buyer/seller privacy and security?"
1) Yes. If I bought from a seller that asked me to sign for a package, I would never use that seller again.
2) Depends. Rumor has it that if you check tracking using Tor, that parcel will likely get seized because who the fuck would want to stay anonymous for tracking a parcel with a specific address? If you check that parcel with your real IP address and then it gets seized, you're in deep shit. I guess public Wi-Fi in a very congested place is your friend on this one (not on a cell phone as IMEI is easily tracked back to you).
3) Anonymity is the game here. Sharing any additional information should be avoided at all costs, regardless of who it's to.
In addition (and sorry if this is patronizing), parcels need to be double vacuum sealed.
Don't smoke weed or hash around your parcels (dogs will pick up this scent even if goods inside are well sealed)
Wipe all inner and outer parcels with an alcohol wipe before and after packing (prints and DNA)
Keep all hair tied back and if you have a beard/facial hair, cover it up when packing (DNA)
If you use gloves, ensure you use two layers. If there's dust on the parcel and you pick it up with thin gloves, your prints will be left on the dust as the one pair of gloves is so thin. Do you see what I mean?
Remember it could be anybody ordering (incl law enforcement) so treat every package as though it's going to be analyzed forensically.
Good luck, stay safe and if you want to give me a discount for helping, PM me and I'll give you my SR user name so you know it's me ;)
(btw, SR User is not my buying username)
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^-- if i could +1 this i would, helpful reply.
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"other vendors run a listing for each product/region/shipping option. Is there a method that is recommended or suggested?"
With the update to region settings and postage a few days ago, only one item listing is needed.
Vendors can add multiple shipping options for regions/shipping method to each product.
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For the experienced sellers:
how does one determine the correct postage for a package without showing up at the post office? I know you can just weigh it, and use the USPS site to determine the price, but isn't package size a consideration? Also, do you all use self-adhesive stamps as a rule?
On a related note, I recall delivery confirmation cost starts at .70 and up, but how does one affix delivery confirmation to a package without the aid of a USPS employee? I've always gone to the post office in person for my mailing needs, and shipping packages with delivery confirmation without doing so in person is new to me, so I'm unsure how to get started with delivery confirmation without a face-to-face at the post office.
For twking (and experienced sellers), as someone who is considering selling on SR myself, I want to do a quick poll: do you plan to put your real return address on the envelope?
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Twking, as a buyer, I know that it is your decision who to accept orders from. Some vendors wont accept new buyers, or they may be required to release escrow before shipping. If someone has a problematic refund rate, then I would suggest canceling their order or also requiring them to finalize before shipping.
Once you mark a package "in transit", the buyer no longer has the option of canceling the order.
Many vendors use delivery confirmation. NO SIGNATURE is required for USPS. It is not only for express, but also for priority and first class parcels (not letters) that are within the correct dimensions (USPS.com). I know of at least one vendor who uses delivery confirmation because if you can prove the package was delivered you are not liable to give a refund if the buyer says it never arrived. I do not know how SR handles these disputes, or whether it compromises anonymity. I can tell you that I would absolutely never buy from a vendor requiring a signature... the only thing I think when someone asks you to do that is LEO!!!
Vendors run out of product. It happens all the time, some products are up for less than a day. There is a number on the listing, and once you sell that many the listing disappears. When you get more, you update the number back to how many are available, and the listing will reappear I believe. I have had an order canceled due to over-selling, which was frustrating, but I still give my business to the vendor. The considerate thing to do is just update your seller profile or post on the forum to keep your customers in the loop about running out and incoming/expected product arrival.
b4b33: Buy flat rate boxes or envelope mailers, pick up delivery confirmation slips from post office and take home. Then pack the goods, affix on package to the LEFT of the address and drop anonymously... I have never done it, but pretty sure that is how it works from other threads.
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Thanks for all the helpful responses. Spent the weekend working out supply chains and stocking up. Almost ready to register, just need to work out a few final details.
Thanks
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For twking (and experienced sellers), as someone who is considering selling on SR myself, I want to do a quick poll: do you plan to put your real return address on the envelope?
I do not intend to put my real return address on the envelope. I will use a valid address, but not one that has any connection to myself.
I've created a list of small businesses that exist in the different subdivisions of my metropolitan area and the mailing address of the building they are in. The key here is the building address, not the mailing address.
For example, if the mailing address of the business is #1-1000 Main St, City, State, PC then the return address that I use is 1000 Main St, City, State, PC. Sill valid, but a little harder to route back to sender. Of course, if the postie has worked the route long enough, they may know where to drop the package, but that assumes it bounces back in the first place.
As for the type of business that I've collected mailing addresses for, I've focused on small, independent travel agencies (send lots of travel/promo materials), small law firms (large firms have formal letterhead/envelopes/etc, lot's of legal documents get sent back and forth, opening them can violated attorney/client confidentiality), and small, non-chain hotels/bed & breakfasts (lost & found returns).
Check this link for safe shipping ideas: http://kpvz7ki2v5agwt35.onion/wiki/index.php/Safe_Shipping_of_Drug_Mail
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twking: I will share some invaluable tips on SR if you msg me with your BUYER account after a couple sales. I have good shipping skills, but I'm not gonna go telling everyone aka the police how it's done.
so if you want some help hit me up there. I just want to make sure you're on the up and up...any other seller for that matter.